Wednesday, December 09, 2009

More on Jewish ethnocentrism

In the comments in the last post, some readers contended that Jews are not ethnocentric. Using the same question I used in the comments section--how important is your ethnicity for your sense of who you are--I calculated the mean score for all American ethnic groups with at least 30 people. Answers ranged from "very important" (1) to "not at all important" (4), so high scores indicate low ethnocentrism.

The table shows that of the 13 groups big enough to measure, Jewish Americans are the third most tribalist group, behind only blacks and Mexicans Americans. The difference between Jews and those of English descent (the comparison group) is statistically significant at the 95 percent confidence level. The standard deviation is 1.14, so the English/Jewish gap is slightly over 1/2 of a standard deviation.

Irish and Italian Americans, thought by some in the previous post to be as ethnocentric as Jewish Americans, do not differ significantly from Americans of English descent. The gap between Jews and the Irish is 39% of one standard deviation; the Jewish/Italian gap is 35% of one SD.

Jews are significantly less ethnocentric than blacks, but their mean does not differ significantly from that of Mexican-Americans (p < .05, two-tail test).  (I wouldn't be surprised if this comparison would become significant if N were increased).


  1. The Undiscovered Jew8:22 PM

    In the comments in the last post, some readers contended that Jews are not ethnocentric.

    We aren't excissevely compared to other whites:

    Use the variable relig(3) ethnic(15) Italians and ETHID (ETHID : R AMERICAN VS ETHNIC IDENTITY - 515. When you think of social and political issues, do you think of yourself mainly as a member of a particular ethnic, racial, or nationality group or do you think of yourself mainly as just an American? ):


    1: JUST AN AMERICAN 87.0



    5: IT DEPENDS 3.5

    RELIG 3

    1: JUST AN AMERICAN 80.6



    5: IT DEPENDS 7.5

  2. The Undiscovered Jew8:26 PM

    We are in line with other ethnic whites:


    1: JUST AN AMERICAN 87.0


    3: 2 OR MORE ETHNIC GRPS 2.2

  3. The Undiscovered Jew8:34 PM

    If we are so incredibly ethnocentric, why is the outmarriage rate 50%?

  4. Ted Sallis has criticized claims regarding Jewish intermarriage rates at the new Occidental Observer blog.

  5. The Undiscovered Jew8:58 PM

    The rate of roughly 50% intermarriage has been established by multiple surveys over a period of years. It is a well established phenomena regardless of what "Ted Salis" thinks.

    The fact a 50% rate of outmarriage is strong evidence against the idea that Jews are extremely ethnocentric.

  6. The Undiscovered Jew9:03 PM


    Jew(2-4) (I excluded Orthodox Jews because liberal Jews are most of interest in this discussion)

    ETHNIC(15) Italy



    1: VERY CLOSE 41.9

    2: CLOSE 41.8

    3: NOT VERY CLOSE 15.2

    4: NOT CLOSE AT ALL 1.1



    1: VERY CLOSE 42.1

    2: CLOSE 37.8

    3: NOT VERY CLOSE 17.2

    4: NOT CLOSE AT ALL 2.9

  7. The Undiscovered Jew9:06 PM



    1: WHITE 90.3

    2: BLACK 1.1

    3: OTHER 8.6

  8. Anonymous9:11 PM

    The Ted Sallis article makes two claims:

    "he 50% rate was likely an over-estimate, at least for first marriages (i.e., those most likely to lead to family formation), and because of undercounting conservative and orthodox Jews."

    "even if we accept a 50% rate, I previously commented on other forums that such a rate is actually indicative of a resistance to assimilation, not a tendency toward it. That is because not only do virtually all white gentile ethnic groups have an intermarriage rate greater than 50% (as the work of Alba has shown), but proportion of the population needs to be figured in. The larger a group, the greater the probability, and possibility, of finding a mate of the same ethnic (or religious) background; the smaller the group, the greater the chance of mating with someone different – that is, if the people in question have no innate resistance to assimilatory intermarriage. Given that Jews make up a very small percent of the American population, the Jewish intermarriage rate in the absence of anti-assimilation pressures should be much higher than 50%, in fact at least 80%."

  9. The Undiscovered Jew9:18 PM

    The 50% rate is not an overestimate - it has been established by multiple surveys going back to the 1990s.

  10. There's no way Italians are that much less ethnocentric than Jews.

    Watch "Jersey Shore" on MTV or better yet, visit Seaside Heights or Staten Island. There's Italian ethnic organizations as well.

    The GSS has given some very fishy data in the past, so it's not the most reliable metric.

    I would agree though that many ambiguous white Americans (of mixed ethnic heritage or just not of a certain ethnic heritage) are significantly less ethnocentric than Jews.

  11. Anonymous9:59 PM

    I think most people who follow these kinds of things are aware of the 50% rate.

    But they're generally unaware of critiques or challenges to claims about the rate made by people like Ted Sallis and Kevin MacDonald.

    People should know about the differing claims on this matter, examine them, and come to their own conclusions.

    Since the 50% rate is well established, there should be no problem with people looking into different views or interpretations.

  12. sabril4:33 PM

    "the 50% rate was likely an over-estimate, at least for first marriages (i.e., those most likely to lead to family formation), and because of undercounting conservative and orthodox Jews."

    It seems to me this supports my point. There are Jews who are highly ethnocentric; there are Jews who are vocally anti-tribalist.

    But I don't think there's a lot of overlap between these two groups.

    A few times now I have challenged Inductivist to name 3 prominent Jews who typify the hypocrisy he decries. Which should be easy if his charge is valid. However he has failed to do so.

  13. Non-Jewish whites who are ethnocentric are objects of mockery-e.g. the Guidos or the character in the Sopranos who was an Italian-American activist. Aside from ethnic Italians, ethnocentric NJW's have no media- or even much real life-presence.

    From Paul Gottfried's recent memoir, Encounters: own painfully accumulated impressions of the apparently forgotten ethnicity of my students.Ethnic and denominational differences do not exist for them, at least on the surface. It is considered downright gauche to mention such differences, except when dwelling on the suffering of blacks or other authorized victim groups or the bigotry of whites, particularly those who bear the stigma of residing in the American South.

    I think we all recognize the accuracy of Gottfried's description of the sociological terrain of contemporary America.

    So, regardless of what secret thoughts people harbor, Jews are operationally almost infinitely more ethnocentric than other whites.

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