Why so much preference for vanilla over chocolate? (Or coffee, for that matter). From earlier discussions, it is safe to say that black men are much more attracted to white women than white men are attracted to black women. So what is the most important reason for this? The possibilities that come immediately to mind are:
1. Men in general prefer feminine women, and whites, on average, are more feminine than blacks (both in looks and behavior).
2. Black men, along with everyone else, are socialized to believe that white women are the most beautiful.
3. There is such a thing as objective beauty which all people appreciate, and white women are, on average, more beautiful.
4. Since white women have historically been a taboo to black men, this makes them more appealing.
5. Black men don't find them to be more beautiful, but to have other more appealing traits like cooperativeness.
6. Black men want to be with white women as a form of racial revenge.
What evidence do we have to support or contradict these ideas? Do people have other explanations in mind?
Are gun owners mentally ill?
Some anti-gun people think owning a gun is a sign of some kind of mental abnormality. According to General Social Survey data, gun owners ...
This is a partial "repost" of something I posted on a different thread today. In short, I disagree completely with the notion that white men somehow "aren't" attracted to black women. I think they are attracted fairly strongly, however there may be cultural reasons why fewer white men court black women, most likely because of the perception they are intimidating.
ReplyDeleteI believe most human sexual behavior is driven by men - basically men get the courtship ball rolling. Black men are culturally, and perhaps genetically, more aggressive than whites, so they probably successfully court more white women.
Anyway, here's the repost and what I feel is a more intellectually satisfying explanation for what is going on here:
On some evolutionary level the individual set of genes strives to achieve some sort of hybrid vigor. I imagine this will be proven at some point through research.
I further suspect it's men that drive it, in that men are more "susceptible" to the charms of a woman of another race than women are to the males of a different race. Of course, it takes two to tango, I suspect the male initiates the courtship as they usually do in same race relationships.
The hybrid vigor impulse likely manifests even in Anglo-Anglo relationships - for example, I am of Irish (supposedly so-called "Black" Irish)-French American descent, my wife is of Dutch-German. I'm fairly dark complected with brown eyes and hair, she is pale-complected blonde with green eyes. All her past boyfriends were dark-haired, dark-eyed; my most serious relationships before marriage were with blondes and in one case a Vietnamese-American, the only brunette I ever dated.
It would be interesting for someone to try to quantify this stuff, for all I know they have.
Fair women are more feminine.
ReplyDeleteAttractive women can be flaunted as a status symbol. White women have a higher currency in this respect.
(White)women prefer darker men(not necessarily black). So they are up for it.. Makes them more amenable to approaches from black men.
White women are slimmer.
"1." is definately true. I think we all agree on this and have talked about it at length.
ReplyDeleteI was going to write a longer reply responding to the other items and elaborating, but I have a lot to do. Instead, you guys might be interested in reading this article, which is some what related to this topic.
It's very interesting!
Tino, actually, my argument is not derived from having seen black women give white men dances at strip clubs, but it's a great place to see the phenomenon of which I speak in action. And it seems just as valid an argument as saying that Sailer's marriage info (which is interesting) somehow can be transferred on to the idea that just because white men don't marry black women they aren't attracted to them. You don't have to marry a person to find them attractive, make a pass at them or sleep with them.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to convince me of this point, then show me the data where the number of times white men fantasize, hit on, seduce, sleep with AND marry black/latina/asian women. Because that will show you the totality of sexual behavior, not one facet of it.
I do agree that just as there might be an impulse towards hybrid vigor, there is an impulse towards genetic stasis, or, what I think Steve Sailer would call a very diluted propensity towards inbreeding (if you accept his assertion that a "race" is merely an enormous extended inbred family).
But let's carry this a little further - do we all agree that if these tendencies exist (either towards diversity or towards homogenity) they are evolutionary in nature?
I assert that the only real thing that attracts a male to a female is whether their is a mutual attraction based on reproductive fitness.
So in the end, I think skin color and facial features are pretty secondary to men, when weighed against:
Facial symmetry (lots of theories why; mine has always been it's just some deep rooted indicator of genetic fitness; also, if the person has a broken nose, scarring, etc. it might indicate clumsiness or stupidity; as in, they are too stupid/clumsy to walk and always falling down)
Skin quality (not color, but quality of complection; an indicator again of health)
Breast size (can the woman nurse a baby?)
Hip size (can a woman deliver a baby?)
Healthy, relatively lean arms and legs, but not too skinny (can a woman run away with the baby is a large predator approaches?)
And finally, not too fat (lots of reasons this is bad) and not to skinny (too skinny you won't menstruate or be able to nurse, probably can't carry the baby to term)
And I think that's pretty much it. Now, sure, you find guys with fatties or skinnies, but that's probably because the lookers are with someone else, and in the end those guys take what they can get - probably because they are pencil necked, fat, dumb or just general losers (which, because my carpal tunnel is acting up now, is my crude shorthand for saying they couldn't defend their women from other men, predators, or be very good at the whole hunting gathering thing.
Anyway, that's what is in the back of my mind as I make my hybrid vigor argument - I'm not statistician, but I do understand evolution, and I have read a lot about evolution's bastard step child sociobiology (which I am not certain could really be called a "science" but it's sure interesting).
I don't know if my argument is right or wrong, but it is logically consistent, which I can't really say about a lot of the desperate attempts I've seen on this site to argue that white men aren't attracted to black women.
In almost-closing - does anyone have any theory about what the evolutionary benefits would be of generally limiting yourself to your large, extended, inbred family? And might there possibly be some evolutionary benefit to the "selfish gene" in seeking out another set of genes significantly different from it?
Finally, two coda comments -
Re: black porn actresses for whites - have you ever been to a porn aggregator site? Not to bring things down to the gutter, but there's tons of sites devoted to white men having sex with black women (and vice versa) and there's a number of black porn actresses. Why do I know this? Because as I mentioned in another post, I have access to national market data about pay per view movie viewing in a national chain of business-traveller hotels. Trust me when I say that whites consume plenty of porn that features black porn actresses. All you have to do is look at the most popular titles on the menu, and compare this with the overwhelmingly white clientele.
Also - please cite your assertion that there was a low rate of sex contact between white slave owners and slaves. This flies in the face of everything I've read about slavery and the Civil War, and I've read a lot. I mean, there weren't that many slaveowners as an overall percentage of the southern population, but it's obvious from primary sources and the genetic heritage of American blacks that there was a great deal of sexual contact going on between whites and blacks. So again, I'd be very interested in the source for that.
Also, there's a great deal of apocryphal/culural evidence that black women in America today exert enormous pressure on one another to not date white men. This may partially explain the low marriage rate.
Anyway, I'm not saying anyone is wrong, I'm just saying I need better evidence before I can agree that there is preference for "vanilla over chocolate."
I think it's important not to ignore the possibility that white women like black men more than black women like white men. After all, most men will sleep with almost anyone; as Darwin pointed out, it's the females who are choosy.
ReplyDeleteFrom my readings about slavery, there was a fair amount of sexual contact between slave owners and slave women. "African-American" is the jargon for describing the yellow tones present when Europeans and Africans started mixing in America.
ReplyDeleteLook at modern Sub-Saharan Africans today: much, much darker. As far as I am concerned, as an American living in Richmond, Va., there is certainly nothing resembling colorblindness; however, there are people who could choose based on physiological appearance alone to enter cliques largely composed of whites or blacks.
That said, in pornography, there appears to be a larger preference for white women in general, but this may reflect the computer owning population on the English-speaking web (Again, we can alude to how people generally desire to mate with those who resemble them.) I am a long-time viewer of pornography, and aggregators tend to put blondes at the top. (I tend to prefer brunettes, and prefer blacks to Asians for whatever reason.)
The "black," "white," "Asian," "Hispanic" titles are becoming increasingly meaningless with time, however, as do most racial terms.
I would be very interested in hearing the evidence that black women exert intense social pressure not to be with white women. What would be the cause of such a thing?
"I think it's important not to ignore the possibility that white women like black men more than black women like white men. After all, most men will sleep with almost anyone; as Darwin pointed out, it's the females who are choosy."
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree with this. I think both men and women have particular likes and it's not so much that men will sleep with anybody.
"I cannot believe the ignorance I have found on this page. Beautiful women come in all shapes, sizes, and races and have all differenct personality types."
ReplyDeleteHaha! Yes, anonymous, you're right that there are plenty of people who are "ignorant" of the "fact" that all of your opinions are correct.
When two ethnic groups meet they can roughly either:
ReplyDeletea) ignore each other (a la Jim Crow)
b) cooperate and mix BOTH ways (South America)
c) clash (ethnic competition, not necessarily through war alone)
In the latter case, the dominant group usually tries to prevent the males from the other group from mating, by capturing or seducing their women.Think of the "Rape of the Sabine women".
If you reproduce with your own women as well as with those of the competing ethnic group, the genes of your rivals either die out or are subsumed by yours.
It's one of the more cheerful sides to ethnic cleansing.
Now, apply the above to the relationship between Blacks and Whites over the ages in the USA and draw your own conclusions.
If Blacks aren't really the dominant group today, their behaviour clearly tells a different story. Shades of Mencius Moldbug!