Sunday, December 26, 2010

Gay flexibility

We all know that homosexuality is fixed, right?  The conventional wisdom is that homosexuals can no more have straight sex than we heteros can have gay sex. Myself, I couldn't have sex with a man if a gun were put to my head. Gay men are the same, right--just on the other side.

Then why are the numbers so unequal? Using GSS data, we can define homosexuals as men who say they only have sex with men, and straight men defined as those who say they have sex exclusively with women. Only 3.6% of heterosexual men so defined have ever had sex with another men. It sounds like a gun to the head situation. Not so for gay men. Fifty percent of homosexuals have had female partners. Here's the breakdown (sample size = 244):

Number of female sex partners since age 18--percent:

Zero 50.0
One 12.7
Two 7.0
Three 7.8
Four 2.0
Five or more 20.5

I could imagine a gay guy, feeling society's pressure, trying to force himself to have sex with a woman once, then realizing that the idea was simply impossible. But more than 37 percent of gay men have had more than one female sex partner. More than 20 percent have had sex with five or more women! The median number for straight men is only 6 or 7 women.

I can hear you responding that these men have sex with women because society pressures them to. But you are simply making my point. The whole country could gather around me and bark orders to have sex with a man, or else. I'd have to take the "or else." Fifty percent of gay men choose sex with a woman. There's substantial flexibility there, contrary to the PC version of homosexuality.  


Jim Bowery said...

Karl Bowman had the answer to that: All but a few percent of the so-called "heterosexual" men are really repressed bisexual men and hence in need of therapy so desperate that it may be reasonable to pull a House on them and secretly inject them with estrogen for their own good.

Anonymous said...

Two thoughts:

1) I don't mean to sound like old man Clinton, but perhaps it depends on what "is" is. What IS sex, Ron?
Many gay men may have had "sexual contact" with women, particularly when they were young and trying to be hetero. Maybe they have had success with penetration, maybe they haven't. Maybe they attempted it, maybe they didn't. Where the ego is involved, there are many definitions of "sex."

2.) Recall Greg Cochran's hypothesis that a certain subpopulation of neurons, maybe those responsible for production of a neurotransmitter necessary for
opposite-sex attraction, may be destroyed in the way that a small population of neurons are destroyed in the brain of a those with narcolepsy.
Perhaps in some homosexuals there remains a small,functional population of cells necessary for some opposite sex attraction, enough not to gag on hetero sex?
In this way perhaps, maybe some homosexuals are different from heteros.

Donny said...

Christian conservative cranks really are just unremittingly tedious on this subject.

Anonymous said...

Given the number of men (and women) who turn gay in prison, and then are ostensibly "straight" on the outside leads one to belive that sexuality is a very fluid thing. You can't choose who you are attracted to, but you can "lie back and think of the Queen" on as as needed basis, perhaps by fantasizing who you would really like to be with.

Hail said...

we can define homosexuals as men who say they only have sex with men, and straight men defined as those who say they have sex exclusively with women. Only 3.6% of heterosexual men so defined have ever had sex with another men.

These definitions do not make sense.

Heterosexual defined = "have sex exclusively with women", yet "3.6%" "have had sex with men".

If you clarified these definitions, I'd bet the "50% of gays have had sex with women" figure is just proof that true homosexuals and bisexuals are in equal proportion!

Ron Guhname said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ron Guhname said...

Donny: Empiricism is tedious. Get used to it.

Hail: The definitions make perfect sense; the people who answer the questions inconsistently are the ones who don't make sense. They define their behavior differently than they count their actual histories.

Ron Guhname said...

Hail: If we combine men who say they have sex with men and women with men who say they have sex exclusively with women but who then report male partners, we get 3.9% of all men. That is substantially larger than the 3.0% of men who say they have sex exclusively with men.

Anonymous said...

This data fits too perfectly with the theory that men who turn to homosexuality are hypersexual tops who will stick their dicks into anything and hyposexual bottoms who experience sex passively.

Robert said...

"He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave." - Sir William Drummond

Anonymous said...

Gays, in many cases, are sexually abused as minors and go on to develop a lot of pyscosexual issues later on. A lot of them are basically perverts that are just seeking sexual experience with anything they can get their hands on - prostitutes, other men, children, whatever. I don't want to sound crude....... but a lot of them just want to stick it somewhere where they can get some stimulation.

Anonymous said...

A lot of Hispanic and Afro-American guys also might have women on the side to prove their masculinity, but then be on the down low too. I remember reading about a how lots of minorities come from macho cultures where men maintain concurrent relationships with men and women.

Anonymous said...

to Anonymous 6:45 AM

There is no thing as "turning gay", these people could have been gay to begin with and prison offered them the chance to live their dreams of sweaty, penetrative sex with other men.

Also, if they ended up in prison, it's because they were fucked up mentally to begin with, and gayness is highly correlated to mental fuckedupness.

Anonymous said...

I think you are on to something. I've noticed that most gays I've known have had straight sex at some point in their lives, while most straights I've known haven't had gay sex. I've also noticed a lot of behavior to suggest that gays are a lot more bisexual than we are led to believe. I've known "lesbians" to have secret affairs with men or leave their girlfriends for men, I've known gay men to drunkenly have sex with their female best friends or "jokingly" grab women's breasts. Exclusive homosexuality is rare in the animal world, possibly non-existent, but bisexual behavior is not uncommon. Even the famous "gay penguin" eventually left his male partner for a female partner. I suspect that the situation is similar in humans and bisexuality is much more common than exclusive homosexuality, with the majority of self-identified gay people showing bisexual tendencies or behaviors.

The problem is that in the PC, conformist gay community any gay man who admits attraction to women and any lesbian who admits attraction to men is going to be shunned and viewed as a traitor. Gay activists know that "born this way" propaganda is politically advantageous because it frames homosexuality as an immutable characteristic, like race or sex, so they downplay the frequency of bisexuality in the community. "Born this way" rhetoric is especially ridiculous if you think about how a lot of these activists know full well it's a lie because they are fully aware of their own heterosexual fantasies and desires, as well as the heterosexual sex that many of them are engaging in on the sly. The reason I would suggest for gays being much more likely to have heterosexual desires than vice versa is due to simple reproductive reality. Male bodies and female bodies are reproductively complementary, the result being that heterosexual desire is universal or near-universal and exclusive homosexuality is either very rare or non-existent.