Sunday, April 15, 2007

I saw two chicks fighting, and it was not a turn-on: Stopping to get gas the other day, I saw two women duking it out--one black, one Hispanic. I never did learn what the issue was, but the poor Mex-Am women's face looked like hamburger, while the black women was untouched and ready for more. Luckily, another man beat me to the scene, because I sized up the black woman and wondered if she could to take me.

Maybe you're thinking to yourself that this Ron guy is a real wuss to think twice about stepping between these two women, but maybe you don't know the facts: a black woman and a white man are in the same ballpark in terms of violence. It wasn't that long ago that adult black women killed at higher rates than white men. The former's rates have come down, perhaps due to high incarceration rates for drugs. But even the latest Bureau of Justice Statistics puts black females only a bit below Joe Six-Pack:


Homicides per 100,000 population

Black men 38.0
White men 5.6
Black women 3.9
White female 0.8

So tell me--which two groups are most similar here: it ain't the women or the men. And it wasn't just size that gave the black girl the advantage. She knew how to fight.

I was so disgusted after I witnessed this. These were not teenagers. They probably have families to take care of. If any foreign tourists had been there, I would have been ashamed. Call me old-fashioned, but it's particularly disturbing to see two women acting like cave men.

13 comments:

Peter said...

I highly doubt there's even the remotest connection between a particular demographic group's homicide rate and the street-fighting abilities of the group's members. Most homicides are committed with weapons.

Ron Guhname said...

Peter: The connection between the two is not why I wrote the post, but it seems to mean that skill and homicide rates line up perfectly in the 4 groups we happen to have here. I'd be surprised if white men have better skills than black men, and even more surprised if black women had worse abilities than white women. One primary source of skill AND homicide is growing up in a world of violence. The coolness that black women showed would have helped her greatly if she had wanted to kill her opponent. Another connection would be physical size and strength. You might be thinking of the peaceful, Chinese guy steeped in martial arts, but I never argued for some super tight correlation.

tommy said...

I highly doubt there's even the remotest connection between a particular demographic group's homicide rate and the street-fighting abilities of the group's members.

Um, you highly doubt that testosterone is a common denominator in both physical strength and aggressiveness?

Peter said...

Peter: The connection between the two is not why I wrote the post, but it seems to mean that skill and homicide rates line up perfectly in the 4 groups we happen to have here. I'd be surprised if white men have better skills than black men, and even more surprised if black women had worse abilities than white women. One primary source of skill AND homicide is growing up in a world of violence. The coolness that black women showed would have helped her greatly if she had wanted to kill her opponent. Another connection would be physical size and strength.

I have heard, strictly anecdotally to be sure, that ordinary fistfights are quite uncommon in ghetto communities. It's way too dangerous to get involved in one because there's a good chance that your opponent is armed. Fists vs. guns is usually a losing proposition for those on the fists side.

Ron Guhname said...

Peter: According to data I analyzed before, a higher percentage of black teens are frequent fighters than white teens.

http://inductivist.blogspot.com/2006/05/mexican-teens-have-worst-behavior.html

Anonymous said...

Maybe among women, black women are better fighters than white women since aggressiveness does count for something and is probably correllated with past experience fighting.

But my guess is that in a straight up fight between a random black man and a random white man, the white man would have the advantage because of (1) his superior upper body strength; and (2) a culture that tolerates (even celebrates) the one on one brawl. (Notice that blacks tend to engage in fights where they have a big advantage in numbers, size, and/or weaponry.)

Peter said...

Back when I was in high school there was a definite difference in fighting styles between black and white kids. This was a number of years ago, but I doubt much has changed, nor is there any reason to believe that my high school was in any way unrepresentative.

When two black kids fought, they'd almost always stay on their feet and throw punches at each other, like you'd see in a boxing match. White kids that fought usually would start out with stand-up punching but in nearly all cases would be grappling on the ground in a matter of seconds. Their fights resembled UFC matches, though that organization did not exist at the time.

Is it any coincidence that blacks dominate boxing, or at least did so until recently, while whites dominate the UFC?

Anonymous said...

"It's way too dangerous to get involved in one because there's a good chance that your opponent is armed."
"Notice that blacks tend to engage in fights where they have a big advantage in numbers, size, and/or weaponry"

Both true many times, at least from my experience of living in Phialdelphia and not in the greatest neighborhood. Oddly enough the fistfights that did occur down there were organized, practically boxing matches set up in someone's yard, with a crowd and all. This used to go on over on Sunrise Ave up the Roosevelt Blvd. I even stopped a few times an nobody seemed to mind. I don't know if it goes on anymore. As for people being armed in Phladelphia, you'd better believe it.

Ron Guhname said...

One questions is, who teaches boys to fight now? I imagine it's got to be dad, older brothers, or maybe friends, but dads aren't around much among blacks, and that's the trend for whites, too. And with smaller families, not as many kids have older brothers now. My impression is that most young white men now can only beat people up in video games.

Peter said...

One questions is, who teaches boys to fight now? I imagine it's got to be dad, older brothers, or maybe friends, but dads aren't around much among blacks, and that's the trend for whites, too. And with smaller families, not as many kids have older brothers now. My impression is that most young white men now can only beat people up in video games.

Fist fighting skills are rapidly disappearing from American society. I sometimes watch online video clips of schoolyard and playground fights, and in most cases the skills on display are pathetic. Looping roundhouse punches that can be seen a mile off, for example.

Another factor contributing to the loss of fighting skills is the way that school fighting has become some terrible tragedy that must be punished severely in all instances. Back when I was in school, which wasn't all that long ago, getting into the occasional tussle was accepted as a part of growing up. It was very rare for fighting to be punished by anything more than a day's suspension.

Today, of course, school fighting has been completely demonized. A run-of-the-mill fight usually results in the police being summoned, long suspensions, parental conferences, mandatory psychological counselling, and sometimes removal to an "alternative" school program.

SFG said...

Aren't black men generally bigger and more muscular? I'd expect that to help in a fight.

I don't really see what's so awful about the loss of fistfighting skills, frankly. Our soldiers use guns anyway.

Spungen said...

Today, of course, school fighting has been completely demonized.Today, of course, school fighting has been completely demonized.

Peter, you seem to have a nostalgic view of what actually remains a very dangerous activity. Young men (and less frequently, women) can be and are permanently disfigured and disabled due to fights even without knives or guns. One of the problems is there's no one-on-one rule the way there is on TV; groups jump one guy or a smaller group.

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